Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  3

  Evolution of theology

  by elbib in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when jerusalem was captured and its temple was burned by pagan king in 586 bce (or 607?

  ), it was a theological crisis for the jews.

  then a concept of messiah (king-priest) who will restore everything was evolved.

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  Half banana

  I agree strongly with the idea that religious belief evolves according to events. It might be true to say that all things change over time.

  Some things in real life do not change or change at a rate too slow to observe such as the sequence and structure of geological formations. Gemstones must be an exception to the rule of all things changing. Contrast this with the ever changing nature of ideas and beliefs.

  Most certainly Jewish defeats galvanized the desire for a heroic redeemer especially in the book Isaiah, where driven by loss and impotence, the writer imagines the arrival of a glorious all conquering saviour.

  The Bible from start to finish is a reflection of the thinking and beliefs of people at all the evolving stages of their cultures and ideas over time. Starting with offering the gods blood sacrifice and developing from polytheism through henolatry (worshipping one particular god) finishing in Revelation in a riot of visionary monotheism jam packed with Greek and not so philosophical mumbo-jumbo.
  

  So we need to be mindful of language too and note that it also evolves, such as seen in the contempt put into the word pagan by the Roman church to distance itself from the true folk origins of Christianity. (Pagan simply meaning "of the village people" in Latin and by inference "the uneducated").

  A significant mistake would be to imagine that the career of the Jews has any special meaning to it. The Bible is just their dreams writ large.
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  23

  My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

  by TMS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

  that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

  no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

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  Half banana

  TMS, as Freddo has just said, I think your neutrally delivered account of the gross injustice with God's favouritism of David in the Bathsheba affair, could well have pierced her JW "force field".

  These Bible stories create the mind set for the GB... it seems that God does not care about children all that much, they are like non-believers: expendable.
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  21

  Why dont you go to the memorial?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  l guess we all have our own reasons and thought it would give insight to others considering going to reconsider and not go.

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  Half banana

  Although this information had been systematically hidden by the Roman Church for obvious reasons, Jesus was simply the name applied to long succession of half-human half-god saviour figures or "christs" who would save people from death by their own sacrificial death.

  These primitive god-man cults should have been consigned to history where they belong.

  In the second century these words were attributed to the "christ" called Jesus:

  "There are some of those standing here who will not taste death before they have seen the kingdom of God already come in power." Mark 9;1 NEB

  Jesus got it wrong. No subsequent events could ever make the statement true. Christianity and all religion is a misdirection and a colossal waste of time.

  The memorial supper at the spring equinox with symbols of blood and flesh of the saviour was copied by Jesus christianity from the cult of Mithra (the "good shepherd") where it had been a principal ritual since about 390BCE.

  And anyway, human sacrifice is not my cup of tea.
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  162

  Do you still believe in God?

  by FormerlySandL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never thought i would admit it, but i don't.

  i might superstitiously have some kind of doubt but digging a bit deeper in my heart i really don't believe in god.

  as a human i could never just sit and watch people be tortured, live years of abuse, suffer from illness and disabilities and all the other awful things people have to endure day after day without doing something about it.

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  Half banana

  I can hardly imagine any greater tyranny than the existence of an effectual God.
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  11

  On the Fundamentalist Notion of Babylon Destroyed - Forgot to Tell Ancient World

  by kepler in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  among puzzlements of sitting down with jw reps with "what the bible really teaches", was the assertion that babylon was destroyed - forever - just like it says in these here chapters and verses.

  then the nwt claims that peter i & ii were written from babylon.

  but beside that, ancient greek, hebrew and roman writings are full of reference to babylon as an important center.

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  Half banana

  Kepler thanks for bringing the Babylon history to the surface. JWs are so gullible they cannot even imagine that a factual, coherent understanding of history exists... just their own narrow viewpoint.

  The painting of Alexander’s entry to Babylon by Charles Le Brun (from which a copy was made for a grand tapestry) is a stonking example of Baroque art, it focuses on the unbridled and worshipful homage to a classical leader hero and by deliberate implication; to the “Sun King” Louis. No wonder Le Brun became Louis XIV’s favourite painter. Baroque art in this painting is serving the interests of total political power. (If you like paintings; look her up and enjoy being charmed by Le Brun’s great-great nephew’s wife Louise Vigee Le Brun).

  Getting back to your main point; the JW trolley men ask, ”What does the Bible really mean?” This question is loaded! It implies that the Bible has a meaning but is a puzzle which requires explaining.

  Put this in context: with what; thirty or forty thousand sects each claiming that their particular interpretation is the only one which presses God’s button. What a mess, what a disaster!

  The Bible HAS NO MEANING! It was second hand to start with... Its eclectic nature precludes it having a meaning since it is drawn from the established literature of most of the significant powers of the Middle East where Israel was and ever remained a pip-squeak tribal non-entity. It is full of nationalistic romance and dreams and is far from factual... it contradicts itself...it is not divine.

  The Bible has every semblance of pathetic human weaknesses such as misogyny, hate, retribution, homophobia, xenophobia and an insistent streak of masochism and it majors in genocide. Even psychopaths tend not to be so comprehensive in their hate for their fellowmen compared to the leading characters in the Bible and especially Jehovah!

  But JWs don’t think for themselves. They don’t generally realise that the most compelling Biblical commentary on the downfall of Babylon was written not long before the Christian era in the book called Daniel.By using historical precedents it made portentous prophecies written four centuries after the events had already occurred! Some prophecy! Like the destruction of Babylon, prophecy is a delusion and the Bible is a fraudulent.

  This is the meaning of the Bible: A book written for the gullible who do not think for themselves and who cannot live without a fantasy hope to maintain their grip on life.
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  15

  The Kingdom Message

  by truth doubter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  regarding the unique preaching of the kingdom by wt (new creation, heavenly kings, priests and judges, restoration of paradise on earth etc.).

  the scriptures seem to back up wts interpretation.

  so, although there are a million reasons to become inactive, how can our conscience allow us not to become active in the work described at matt.

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  Half banana

  Truth doubter I was a pioneer, I had many Bible studies, I believed the Bible was God’s word and that the JW org was the channel which God was using.

  Then I thought: where is the evidence that this stuff is true? None of it can be proved!

  It’s all propaganda...the Bible is just human in origin I realized, man is hundreds of thousands of years old, Adam and Eve and the flood are obviously myth, there is no concrete evidence that Jesus ever existed, Jehovah began life as an ox-headed idol, religion is all spin, Jehovah’s Witnesses have never got anything of use correct, the JW org is a self interested and lying cult which keeps its followers in ignorance and in a state of humiliating dependency.

  I still go out in the field service... but only in my nightmares.
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  29

  Governing Body went from anonymous secret group to T.V Stars??? How?

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i grew up in the 1980's -90's it was rare to see a faithful slaves picture in 10 years of watchtowers.

  everything was anonymous.

  no one really knew there names except for the "holy oricle" fred franz.. now they are full on t.v stars with there own show.

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  Half banana

  If Trump gets in, the GB will be lobbying to make the JWs the official American religion.

  Good point Birdie but this is just the GB's wet dream because, sad for them, the WT is avowedly unpatriotic.

  I suppose they could suddenly find some miraculous "New Light" which allows them to join the UN again and go mainstream? But then again little cargo cults like JWs are forever condemned to waiting with only a crumb of hope to live on.
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  16

  My life as a fundamentalist

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as a born-in jw, i never considered myself to be a fundamentalist.

  i always thought we were enlightened, progressive and not 'stuck in darkness' like all the other religions.. i was totally wrong.. as far as fundamentalists go, jw's are probably right up there amongst the front-runners.

  no, they do not stone people to death or go on religion-fuelled violent rampages but that's not what i'm talking about.

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  Half banana

  Joey, you make some very good points including the danger of believing Watchtower dogma such as not having blood transfusions.

  It's a smug and deluded life you lead if you are a JW.

  What I am thinking now is regarding the whole matter of Christian belief; that it should still exist at all! And with such respect by both people and politicians and go unchallenged in this age of instant internet information. A serious secular study on the origins of the Bible easily exposes its unholy fusion of pagan belief masquerading as divine light.

  The premises on which religious belief is drawn are intellectually indefensible. Yet religious culture is proving to be a very large sea-going tanker which will take time and distance to turn around. Better if it sank!

  By passive acceptance and respect for this childish mode of thinking and living we are also enshrining the right to religious fundamentalism and will reap a whirlwind from it.

  It would be possible to recognize that the religious stories are just moralising folk tales and be done with them, existing as part of our collective heritage. Yet to do so ignores the existence of beliefs which radicalise religion by taking the text as sacred and inerrant and killing others as part of divine worship.

  If governments were to sanction fundamentalists blind, emotive and socially pressured injunction to conform, it would make a for a formidable army of holy warriors to be waged against the unbelievers as is happening inside Islam notably in Iraq with ISIS. This political dimension of religious belief is a significant threat to all of us. It is religious idealism placed above the value of human life...as with JWs and blood transfusion.

  Fortunately in the West, especially in western Europe, democracy has generally pushed religious imperatives into the background and religious "belief" as of the 21st century is statistically on the wane even in USA.

  To be a Jehovah's Witness is to be radicalized.

  Even though not overtly political, (from the GB's perspective it most certainly is political in the sense of controlling eight million followers) the JW permits his or her brain to be 'rewired' to conform to the cult mentality. It is a similar process for all fundamentalists; a blind hope in a supernatural resolution to human problems.

  Belief in holy books and their interpreters is not only ignorant and naive but very dangerous.
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  205

  Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...

  by Stumpy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.

  you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!

  what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.

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  Half banana

  That's quite a read Stumpy, thank you!

  I sympathize with your sense of time wasted on that ignorant cult... how could we have been apologists for such baseless garbage? So good too that Mrs Stumpy came out with you on your exit.

  I have friends who outwardly appear to be JWs but know it is false yet remain in for the sake of family. I understand this reasoning but lost my beautiful wife to the org and two of my children by not going to the meetings anymore. I made a decision to not tolerate JW stupidity any longer. Bang go your family and friends when you escape the clutches of a mind-bending cult. For such a personal cost in my case, I can still say that leaving the JW religion was for me was both liberating and invigorating.

  Afterwards, and I'm sure the same goes for many posters here, you wonder how come you were duped for so long and why was the JW cult was so persuasive in the first place? No simple answers here but it did seem to initially offer a convincing and a totally embracing solution to all of life's problems. Like putting all of your metaphorical eggs into the one JW basket. Your emotional, religious, social and even intellectual eggs all together in one location. This means that if the basket of belief is broken everything goes at once.This is a big chunk of the fear in the FOG is it not?

  But what a relief to be free from this JW collective paranoia and to be free to enjoy the ups and downs of a natural life determined by our own conscience and personal choices.

  Good to have you here and all the best to Mrs Stumpy.
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  23

  Interesting article about the evidence of the Jewish Exodus

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews were ever enslaved in egypt.

  yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source.

  i'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources.

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  Half banana

  The Bible distorts nearly everything. Since the Israelites lived in a small and generally unproductive territory in the land of Canaan near to Egypt and since they were an occupied territory under Egyptian rule for many centuries; the idea of them leaving was just a political aspiration which became embodied in their literature, not a historical reality.

  Modern Jewish archaeology and text evidence dismisses the Biblical Exodus account as a factual event.

  It was an Israelite dream, like much of the OT.